Don’t Forget!
Don’t forget to tune in to PBS tonight to watch a new documentary of the Dover Trial, Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial.
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290 Responses to “Don’t Forget!” |
Thanks for the heads-up Eliza.
The creationists will surely whine and snivel about seeing their fraud and failure exposed!
I watched this trial closely at the time and it was great fun when judge Jones reamed the fundies asses for lying!
After John Scazi’s report on the Hamseum yestersay, today he blogs:
“In the aftermath of yesterday’s Creation Museum report, I’m getting comments and e-mails from Christians who are both thanking me for taking the hit for the team and also wanting to make sure I don’t think all Christians believe in creationist clap-trap. My response to both of these:
1. You’re welcome.
2. Of course not.
And toward the latter, I do think it’s worth reminding other folks that making the lazy equivalence between creationists and Christians is not a smart thing to do.
Indeed, it’s worth noting that creationism isn’t even inherently Christian; [My bold] here’s some Islamic creationism in Turkey for you to chew on, had you not been aware it existed.
I’m sure it will absolutely delight most creationists here in the US to know they have common cause with these Islamic counterparts.
http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=124#comments
I had this date marked on my calender for some time now, and I’m looking forward to seeing how the folks over at NOVA produced this.
We have a toddler, and her bedtime normally falls within the time that it will be on. I took over putting her to bed for the last several nights in a row, so that now I can have my wife put her to bed tonight (without feeling guilty!) and I won’t have to miss any of this show!
I will be watching the 1:00 a.m. airing. I cannot wait!
It will also be online Nov 16. I’m not sure of the time though.
At the time of the Kitzmiller v Dover trial, the ALCU posted transcripts of each day’s proceedings. It was the only trial I ever read every word of transcrpts. That trial was like a modern day version of the Scopes Monkey Trial and shouldl have set up a very important precedent. It was fascinating to follow. The ACLU attorney’s made mincemeat out of the Thomas Moore Law center attorneys. And a good time was had by all!
Who woulda thunk that the Scopes Trial would be re-enacted in modern times?
When I was in high school, I had a part in the school production of Inherit The Wind. Even back then, I knew the fundie mouth foamers were nuts.
Did you know that the ACLU actually defended the rights of those sick Phelps family bastards? Once again, one of the times where I am repulsed, but must respect the principle. Notice none of the fundies boasted or bragged about the ACLU involvement.
I must watch that movie again. Dale do you still have the links, on how certain aspects of the movie take on the fanciful?
What role did you get, Don?
Albatross…believe it or not…I played Elijah.
I sold bibles.
Deep down, I knew I was a charlatan.
“Did you know that the ACLU actually defended the rights of those sick Phelps family bastards?”
Freedom of speech man. I want mine. Im willing to tolerate even those idiots. Its easy to say someone should have free speech when they say things you like. Hard when they say that kind of sick stuff.
But thats the difference between us, and the Bill’s of the world. They want to legislate their morality. I want freedom.
Quick…
assemble the ACLU and rush down to Georgia…the Govenor is a prayin’ for rain!
Moonpie,
Would you be the “Moonpie” that posted here a year ago or so, or ar you new to the site?
Either way, thanks for coming by!
Alba,
Being a rather comptetitive being, of the baseball pitchers kind, I like it when I find a “former friend” pitching againt me.
One of those “old friends” has been the ACLU.
The staff of the ACLU is one of the most unbiased groups that I have dealt with.
There is not any group or person in this good country that they have not defended in one way or another.
They are not perfect, nor am I, by a longsight.
The ACLU stands for nothing more than the very conservative isea that we should maintain and interpret the constitution as written by some very wise dudes, back in the day.
That ol’ constitution has served us very well, and this writer will submit that our founding document should be very adequate to propel us into the next century.(but I will be dead, of course.)
Personal freedom has been fought for and won, for our country. What more do you RR fundies want?
They have remined a major force for personal freedom, based on the constitution, and, when they defend causes that I am opposed to, I have ended up on
The reason that we often refer to the Religious Right as facists is because they want to subvert the constitution and make our country their theocracy. Rest easy…. that is never going to happen.dudes and dudettes. never.
Dale, yep it’s me, RC and boiled peanuts. But you can pretend I’m new!
praise be to Luna((moon)pie}…invoking her name is as likely to provoke rain as is the Gov’s incantations to his false lord!
Yah, don’t you just hate it! and he didn’t force anyone to participate…
Thanks, I’ve got the show bookmarked on my TV schedule. Woe to the fool who tries to keep me from watching it. I can’t wait to hear the squeals of outrage and whining protests of persecution as the ID cockroaches scuttle for their dark corners to regroup.
Score one for us evil-lutionists!
On a related note, has anybody read an article called “Should Science be Taught in Our Schools?” in the Onion print edition of “Our Dumb Century”? It’s a satire of the original newspaper coverage of the Scopes trial featuring Cornelius from Planet of the Apes. Absolutely hilarious, and utterly to the point! I’d give you a link, except I haven’t been able to find it on the Onion website.
JW, Dale re: ACLU
You both know I wholeheartedly agree, but the Phelps family? Nasty bastards. Dog shit on new shoes.
Dorris, love the Onion, but I can’t say I saw that one.
How great was that Nova special!!!!! That guy Buckingham has to be the biggest jack-ass I’ve seen on TV since the last time I saw Bush. Listening to him reminded me so much of reading bill’s posts. I LOVED when that lady found the “transitional fossil” in the literature where they changed the word creationism to intelligent design. Three cheers for the ACLU and the judge that ruled on the case.
F these morons where they breathe, as we say around these here parts.
Watched the DOVER JUDGMENT documentary on PBS.
MANY MANY HIGHLIGHTS, chief among which waa Judge Jones’ statement that “ID was GARBAGE in, GARBAGE out”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ID IS NOT SCIENCE. STUFF THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT BILL &CO.
stick ID and je-zeus up the arses of ALL the FUNDIES!!!!
moonpie, RC, Richard Kozbey, Rick have your Doctors tried THORAZINE yet?
test
fascism
I have reposted something twice, off into oblivion it went.
se la vi
Ahh. Found the problem.
The 14 characteristics are:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; sociali*ts, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
I’m not certain it could never happen here, Dale.
The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt
C’est la vie?
Is moonpie Richard or just in need of meds, yahweh?
You know I find it very disturbing that RK can come around and call people cu*t, and other vile names, but we still can’t say social*sm on this site.
c’est la vie
o
que sera sera
:-)
yah & alba,
i don’t need any meds. not sure why you asked if my doctor had tried thorazine. don’t need to resort to name calling either. btw, check atlanta weather forecast for weds & thur….
Moonpie,
AKA sandspur, I remember some fairly animated arguments between us back in the day!
by the way, boiled peanuts still make me gag!
Moonpie,
I checked the weather. It looks like you are going to get enough rain to maybe fill a teacup.
Seriously though, I saw pictures over the weekend of those lakes dried up, etc. That is rather scary.
What did you all do to bring this wrath of god upon you?
Alba,
RE: You 11:18 PM comment
Thanks for posting that. A good overview.
I especially like #8. When the government choses the majority religion to support government mainipulation of public opinion, at the outset, that particular religion is usually very happy to accomodate them. That happened in Iran in 1979 when they threw the shaw out and took on sharia law. Now though, after all these years of suppression, the citizens are getting fed up with the whole mess. As JW has alluded, it looks like they are headed for a revolution. In my opinion though, any rebellion will be met an beat down mercilessly by the “good religious government.”
Religious leadership of any kind is usually not a democratic process. These new megachurches and fundamentalist entities are normally personality cults. They become family dynasties. If it were not for that pesky ol’ first ammendment they would be fighting tooth and nail for ultimate control.
The vast majority of mainstream Americans are just out there doing their thing every day and as long as they are not being fu*ked with, they are silent. But if a real threat emerges they will come to life to keep the status quo.
But, it’s the radical bastards like us, out here in the front line trenches that keep the christo-religio-facist- fundamentalists in line so everybody else can sit back and watch Seinfield or Friends or whatever they do.
Hey Dale,
boiled peanuts are sorta like fine wine, you have to acquire a taste for them!
you and i have, indeed, had some very antithetical opinions….but i still have a great deal of respect for you.
i first theorized that all this drought that the southeast is suffering thru was brought about by the U.S. landing on the moon but in reality, my new bandwagon “global warming” probably has played some part in climatic pattern shifts, and it’s only gonna get worse until all you Defconners stop driving suv’s.
some sharp political operatives in the Ga. Gov’ office probably watched CNN or the Weather channel Monday and saw the forecast for rain on wed/thurs was SCIENTIFICALLY SOLID, so they seized the poitcal/theocratic moment and opted to play rain maker and hold a “rain vigil”.( How special!)
Transparent political/relgious opportunism does NOT a miracle make!
Great Documentary. I am Jack’s total lack of surprise. Even a judge recomended by Rick Santorum and put on the bench by GW could see ID is creationism. And the wonderful “Christians” who supported adding this crap to our schools had no shame while lying, on the stand, and under oath. Why is it I think this is TYPICAL? Sad state of affairs for the fundies, pathetic lying whackos that they are.
“You both know I wholeheartedly agree, but the Phelps family? Nasty bastards. Dog shit on new shoes.”
Yes Alba, they are. But this is, again, the difference between us and Bill. Bill thinks disliking someones morals or speech is a reason to legislate HIS beliefs, and undermine other’s constitutional rights. Those of us who believe in the Constitution as our litmus test for laws, rather than the bible, understand that as much as we hate what Phelps and his hate spewing communitiy say, they have a right to do it. And many people like this are Christian. It is only the fundies, like Falwell, Robertson, Santorum, and Bill, who dont seem to understand.
On the flip side I understand them perfectly. As the woman who runs the radio station in Pa said in the documentary last night…”If you believe in heaven and hell, nothing else matters.”
CT said:
“Listening to him (Buckingham) reminded me so much of reading bill’s posts. ”
It is amazing how the fundies all say the same things in the same manner.
When the source for irrational belief system is only one book, that doesn’t provide them with many salient arguments, especially when the book is an ancient collection of myths. So by definition alone, they must resort to the doubletalk, inuendo, circular reasoning, etc.
Another tactic that they employ to take the heat off themselves was executed by bill on the previous thread. He asks 15 questions all in one comment, very technical questions that would take much time to answer, I call it the “swamp their boat trick.” Of course all of those questions COULD be answered by merely saying “god did it.”
Now that brings us back to the question of intelligence. This comes up here from time to time and I would like to address it once again.
If you take a person of exactly average intelligence, you will have a person that is never going to be a scientist of any kind. People of average intelligence do not posess the wherewithall, the intellectual capacity to do the higher math and complete the rigorous academic requirements. People of strictly average intelligence usually have problems aquiring a bona fide baccalaureate degree of any kind, let alone post graduate level work.
It is well shown that average, C and B- students fail out of college in the first two semesters. That is not a criticism, it’s just the way it is (of course there is a persentage of above average intelligence kids that do not want to go to college, or drop out early, for a plethora of reasons - see bill Gates for one.) Those kids go on to be tradespeople, assistants in technology of all kinds, and well respected people at that.
So, say you are an average guy or gal, then half of the people you know are less intelligent than you- Half!
That half survive on their willingness to learn on the job stuff and their success depends more on their emotional intelligence than anything else- how they get along with people. But since they have far less capability for critical thinking and logic, they are the predominant audience for thechristo-facist babble.
That brings me back to the subject of this comment. CT commented, “That guy Buckingham has to be the biggest ……….” Well, you see, guys like Buckingham are accustomed to spouting their crackpottery to the average and under intellect crowd, and it is recieved because it “sounds nice and warm and fuzzy to them- and darn it, they wanna believe it.
But when someone like Buckingham starts talking this shit to a judge, or above average itellect crowd, they are seen for what they are- crackpots and liars. Tammy Kitzmiller wasn’t buying his shit either, and to her my hat is off for her courage and tenacity to see this case through.
“Listening to him (Buckingham) reminded me so much of reading bill’s posts. ”
The difference is that Buckingham is a fairly intelligent sort with a misguided agenda, where bill is an intellectually stunted dupe for Ken Ham, but it is interesting how they all use the same words and phrases, like trained parrots. Pity, that.
It is easy to see that bill falls into the way under average intelligence group. He cannot spell or conjugate verbs. His prose and syntax are atrocious. He always misses meanings of words written by others and slaughters the meanings of words he writes. He doesn’t even have the ability to form opinions about the stuff that he constantly copies and pastes to this site. He even copies and pastes stuff that he hasn’t read (or can’t understand) that actually support the opposition! Then there is that matter of the infantile manerisms that he acts out like some third grader. He does not even have the ability to get outside himself and look at his actions and or conduct any type of personal self evaluation. He will never be able to see how absurd he is.
JW - Bingo!
I guess I’m more tired than I thought because I was out like a light by 11:30, and missed NOVA. I’ll be watching the internet airing…hopefully…or I’ll be adding the video to my collection.
Yes, that is what I’ll do, and next time Jehovah’s Witnesses knocks on my door, I’m going to invite them in for tea and turn it on. LOL!
”If you believe in heaven and hell, nothing else matters.” - one other thing does matter, convincing the rest of the world to believe their way.
DI is contemplating legal action against PBS for “injecting religion into the classroom teaching about evolution.” PBS has provided an accompanying briefing packet for the NOVA documentary and it includes the following:
“Can you accept evolution and still believe in religion?”
“Yes. The common view that evolution is anti-religious is simply false. All that evolution tells us is that life on this planet could have arisen by natural processes. For many people of various faiths, showing that something is due to a natural process doesn’t take it outside the realm of the divine. Religious thinkers across the ages have written that merely showing that something is natural puts it within the influence of God, the creator of all nature. By definition science cannot address supernatural causes because its methodology is confined to the natural world. Therefore science has nothing to say about the nature of God or about people’s spiritual beliefs. This does not mean science is anti-religious; rather it means science cannot engage in this level of explanation.”
DI was going to have a press conference yesterday to reveal the findings of the 16 attorneys, but it seems Casey Luskin came down with a case of laryngitis. My sympathies to you, Mr. Luskin.
http://aclupa.blogspot.com/
Moonpie,
Thanks for the compliment and your post at 9:17 AM. We had a drought up here in 1988-92 and my water well went dry. We had to take her down another 100 feet to get it back. Although we’ve had some dry spells since then, we’ve not seen a drought. But that was nothing like what you are experienceing.
I think the cause is just a statistical thing. It happens from time to time in different places. Hope you get some rain soon.
Did the documentary show this??
Then as if playing his own character, Buckingham calls the judge in the case “a jackass who has the guts of a house plant.”
And it seems that some things haven’t changed.
The man known for his outspoken — sometimes outrageous — exposition in support of intelligent design hasn’t altered his frankness.
For good measure, he adds: “And I’ll tell that to his face if I ever have a chance, and if I keep shooting off my mouth like this I’m sure he’ll make sure I do. …”
http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/dover22.html
Alba,
Great find.
The ACLU article on the DI suing NOVA is soooo sweet!
They woulod merely make mincemeat out of the DI attorneys again. They don’t have a leg to stand on.
The funny part is that (they started insinuating this a couple years back) the DI wats to claim that evolution is a religion!
That has been posted by fundies and totally refuted on this site on many occasions.
Alba,
Another great link to the York Dispatch article. Thanks.
Thanks for the reminder Dale! I did watch the show and went to bed feeling a bit giddy and replenished with hope!!
On the westcoast the Dover melt down was followed by a show that debunjed many of the alleged religious miracles claimed in various religions. Forensic scientists and journalist from many nations clearly proved that the blood tearing for the virgin Mary statues was bogus. THe saddest was the debunking of the Indian God Gamish who allegedly drank milk fromm a spoon. Capilarry action explained the physics and the religious leaders admitted to the creating the scandel.
Chandra Swami is Indias equivilent to Falwell. He has also facing numerous criminal endictments for other transgressions.
There is hocus pokus all aroound us and many gullible or desperate people looking to find something more significant than their own lives. Truly and terribly sad state of humanity.
Cheers all,
Thanks, Wax. Good stuff. I love seeing those “miracles” being debunked.
Alba,
The Nova site has the link up for the Judgement day report. It will be active on the 16th.
If the creationists are as interested in teaching the controversy as they say they are, they should show this in their churches and sunday schools.
After what these creationists are pulling, I think we should re-brand evolution as Genesisics, and try to teach genetics in Sunday school.
Capital idea, JW!
Here is a comment on the show from Ed Brayton’s site:
…………. The proponents of ID and creationism for the most part were hung by their own words. Their attorneys looked like fools and the primary promoters of ID on the school board, Buckingham and Bonsell, did themselves no favors either in their interviews or the recorded comments from the trial transcript or the depositions. Yet they were given full time to explain their views. If there was any lack of balance, the program didn’t invest much effort in examining why those opposed to evolution are so overwrought emotionally over the issue, how they commonly perceive it– ignorantly I might add–as a mortal threat to their religion.
Posted by: Keanus | November 14, 2007 5:39 PM
It is important to note that the fundies are claiming the report was unbalanced because almost none of the plaintifs were interviewed. They conveniently omit that none of the plaintifs would consent to an interview.
If you think the fundie priestcraft are not lying behind the backs of their cash flow, just look what they do in a nationally important court case.
This is the most seminal court decision in my career as an anti-theocracy, pro-constitutionalist radical bastard.
This case will keep the creationist/ IDiots at bay for at least the next fifty years and by that time everybody will know better- thanks to the internet.
Every step in the technology of the disemination of knowledge in human history has come with a watering down of superstion and all sorts of irrational belief systems.
Three hundred years ago, everybody was superstitious about something. These days the rationalists are increasingly becoming the majority. But don’t worry, us DefConites will allow you fundies your right to practice your fairy tale beliefs. Promise.
Crap- didn’t mean to send that post just yet- hit the wrong button.
Oh well, will send the rationale later….take it for what it’s worth for now.
Replace “plaintiff” with ‘defendant.” Sorry!
I let my teenage daughter stay up late just to watch Nova. Without any input from me, she had no trouble poking holes in the arguments of Behe and the other IDiots on the show. The hypocrisy was also crystal-clear. I especially liked how these supposed “Christians” sent death threats to the science teachers and the judge. Yeah - way to be Christ-like, assholes. Really living up to the Good Book there. And the perjury, and the blatant lies. I also loved it when the guy playing Behe spouted all that “irreducible complexity” crapola, claiming that evolution has never been able to explain the development of the human immune system. When the lawyer started piling science publications explaining the evolution of the immune system in front of Behe, the look on they guy’s face was priceless. I also loved how, when backed into a corner over the utter falsity of ID, they immediately lapsed into vulgar name-calling and petulant pouting. Priceless!
The Three Bs of the A-pox-upon-your-lips — Buckingham, Behe and Bill.
Moonpie: I hought you were one and the same as Richard Kozbey, hence my Thorazine referene.
My apologies !
yahweh, Richard is definitely his own “unique” person. I gave some links to Richard’s escapades. He gets around.
nite
piss off, bill
The Dover court case and the verdict has set a very important precedent.
The findings of Judge Jones will keep creationism/ Idism out of the schools for a good long time.
The creabots lost big time on that one and they continue to be refuted daily.
Of all human powers operating on the affairs of mankind, none is greater than that of competition.
-Henry Clay,
creationists simply can’t compete with truth, justice and rational thought.
Truer words were never written, CT.
Don’t Forget!?!?!?!?!
I love the FACT that elizabeth and thecon have no clue what time it is.
Wow, that was the most prfound statement ever made at DefCon / Sarcasm off.
How could any one person be so imaginative as to think of such a snarky comment.
It just goes to prove once again the stunted and mindless drivel that we get form these kind of people.
Absurdities.
I am wondering if that was supposed to be an insult or did bill actually think it would be an insult rather than highlighting his own stunted inteligence.
thank you, coming from you that means nothing. hehehe
Thou art welcome, father.
As if Bill’s posts mean something!! LOL!
Bill, you are a pus-filled pimple that needs to be popped. You’re an insignificant piece of crap. You add no value. You are deceptive, and a puppet of your master. You are a stalker.
WHY are you trying to track DefCon members?
75
76 - so what?
77
copy cat, lol
Here we go….. what’s next - tag your it??? You’re regressing, bile.
He can’t go back much further, can he, C.T.?
Maybe bill wanted to break into my home and steal some of my underwear.
He runs when I ask, Don. Refuses to answer.
bil(ge), with his obsession of the number post he makes reminds be of the Bevis and Butthead segment where they go to the Grand Canyon and never actually see the canyon because they are all taken up with the sink where the water turns on automatically when one puts their hands under the faucet. Hilarious, yet a great analogy!
I think it would be a better guess that bill would break into our homes with an AK-47. He is very desparate to “win,” which he can’t.
The Dover court case and the verdict has set a very important precedent.
The findings of Judge Jones will keep creationism/ Idism out of the schools for a good long time.
The creabots lost big time on that one and they continue to be refuted daily.
Thanks for Nova and PBS for bringing this to the attention of all decent Americans. They are becoming more knowledgable every day on what the religious right is actually up to.
Amen, to the NOVA/PBS comment, and to the Bill breaking in thing…
My concerns exactly. I can envision Bill performing a violent act, justified by his faith…in his mind.
Desparate + Delusional = Dangerous
I think the Bevis & Butthead post was hilarious.
“AIG Admits Defeat at Dover Trial”
Ken Looy, one of Ham’s psychophants, has an article up at AIG, which is full of distortions and inuendo, but admits:
Evolution is never taught “with fervor.” Science is taught as science finds the natural world; one step, one discovery at a time.
In other words, we won.
Yup, when some uppity, holier than thou creabot suggests at a schoolboard meeting that we should get into the business of religion in our science classes, all we have to do is stand up and say, “I don’t think we have the money to pay a million dollar law suit, now do we?” End of that story. hehe.
We won.
The problem with these fundies is that they don’t want to have to deal with reconciling the scientific facts their children learn in school with the mythological dogma they want to indoctrinate their children into believing at home and at Sunday school. They want the public school teachers to deal with the contradiction. The fundies have backed themselves into a corner and a growing more and more desperate. I’d have pity for them….if it weren’t for the fact that their delemma was self-induced.
CT,
Spot on. And furthermore, when they decide to homeschool, many find they do not have the wherewithall to deal with the rigors of formally educating a child.
That leaves their private schools.These range from very good- the catholic schools, to very bad. Not bad in that they don’t get an education, but bad in that everything they learn is framed as god-did-it for everything that science cannot yet explain, thus creating closed minds. The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it’s open.
I agree,
November 16th, 2007 at 10:01 am
dale Is:
Desparate + Delusional = Dangerous
November 16th, 2007 at 9:39 am
dale Says:
bill, … He is very desparate to “win,” which he can’t.
WIN??? WIN what, I didn’t even know we where in a contest.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
and Human LIFE, for example killing unborn babies.
For any who didn’t follow the thread, in response to the fact that Bill is trying to track and locate DefCon contributors, Dale posted the following:
November 16th, 2007 at 10:01 am
dale said: Desparate + Delusional = Dangerous
Bill then agreed (frightening, indeed), but then distorted the post.
I may be wrong but,
November 13th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
C.T. Says:
ID IS NOT SCIENCE. STUFF THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT BILL &CO.
could someone please look up ande let me know where I claimed ID was science. Maybe I did???
OK…is creationism science, Bill?
I, for one, refuse to scroll back through all your BS, most of which I scrolled right by, anyway. I’m fairly certain that no one else here cares to scroll through your BS, either.
why did you attack this gentleman?
November 14th, 2007 at 7:02 am
Moonpie Says:
yah & alba,
i don’t need any meds. not sure why you asked if my doctor had tried thorazine. don’t need to resort to name calling either. btw, check atlanta weather forecast for weds & thur….
100
Get a life. I never attacked this person. And what makes you presume “Moonpie” is a gentleman?
Nice avoidance, BTW. IS CREATIONISM SCIENCE?
Bill, why are you so freaking obsessed with post #’s?
In reply to: November 13th, 2007 at 11:18 pm,
1. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. Horror of horrors, Americans are proud of their country and are flying the flag. (you’re the one who posted it.)
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights and Human life, example killing unborn babies.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – Like you making my your Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause here at the con.
4. Supremacy of the Military – What did Washington say about the price of freedom?
5. Rampant Sexism – hahaha would Clinton and Monica count
6. Controlled Mass Media – which is what defcon has been closed down and the democraps want the fairness laws.
7. Obsession with National Security - everyone want to blame bush for not being concerned with National Security UNTIL, we are attacked. Now he’s Obsession. Make up your mind. (or ask dale to do it for you.)
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined – you folks love beating a dead horse, don’t you?
9. Corporate Power is Protected – Okay 1 out of 14.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed – yes, I remember the labor riots and the slaughter of all those factory workers.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – This only prove why you don’t like me.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations. **Let me know when you find this national police force.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, like Clinton appointing ALL of his old friends. This is wrong and both sides do it.
14. Fraudulent Elections – YOU LOSE because your party could design a readable ballot. GROW-UP.
Fascism in power is the open, terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of finance capitalism.
The majority of Marxists, even those who were not members of the Communist International, agreed with this definition.
wikipedia
What constitutes a definition of fascism and fascist governments is a highly disputed subject that has proved complicated and contentious. Historians, political scientists, and other scholars have engaged in long and furious debates concerning the exact nature of fascism and its core tenets.
Most scholars agree that a “fascist regime” is foremost an authoritarian form of government, although not all authoritarian regimes are fascist. Authoritarianism is thus a defining characteristic, but most scholars will say that more distinguishing traits are needed to make an authoritarian regime fascist.
Similarly, fascism as an ideology is also hard to define. Originally, “fascism” referred to a political movement that existed in a single country (Italy) for less than 30 years and ruled the country from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. Clearly, if the definition is restricted to the original Italian Fascism, then “fascism” has little significance outside of Italian politics. Most scholars prefer to use the word “fascism” in a more general sense, to refer to an ideology (or group of ideologies) that was influential in many countries at many different times. For this purpose, they have sought to identify a “fascist minimum” - that is, the minimum conditions that a certain political group must meet in order to be considered fascist.
wikipedia
Franklin D. Roosevelt, president of the United States from 1933 to 1945, described fascism in his 1942 “Message from the President of the United States Transmitting Recommendations Relative to the Strengthening and Enforcement of Anti-trust Laws” as follows:
The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism–ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power
Bill said:
Franklin D. Roosevelt…described fascism in his 1942…That, in its essence, is fascism–ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
What group claimed responsibility for electing GWB? What group had large numbers “appointed” to special positions w/in the administration, so as to further their agenda? Were those appointments payback for votes?
Why do you suppose church leaders meet with the POTUS to discuss foreign affairs such as the war? Why do you suppose missionaries are on the heels of the military everywhere they go…almost as if the govt is paving the way for the installation of the religion that will be preached to the choir…most ALWAYS Christianity.
Your 7:44, total crock of shit.
he 14 characteristics are:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
“If you’re not with us you’re against us.” Suspect your non-Christian neighbors as being the “enemy,” or supporting the “enemy, as we are a nation founded on Christianity.” NOT.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture(Abu Gharib), summary executions, assassinations (Pat Robertson publicly calls for execution of Venezuela’s president), long incarcerations of prisoners (no need for further elaboration), etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; sociali*ts, terrorists, etc. (Oops we left out the pro-choicers and the homosexuals)
4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. (What is our federal deficit again? How many of our children have no health insurance, or go to bed hungry?)
5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy. (If you’d like to talk about Clinton/Lewinsky, Bill, perhaps we could revive the Thomas/Hill affair.)
6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
(FAUX NEWS at your service!)
7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
(Stop Ted Kennedy at the airport. Every time you do, allow 100,000 Mexicans across the border without question.)
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
(This needs no further comment.)
9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
(Again, no comment necessary - except to say Blackwater, Haliburton, Enron, etc)
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
(No comment.)
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
(ID/Creationism vs. real science, abstinence vs. comprehensive sex ed., Bible literacy??!!)
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
(Sure, monitor my calls and emails…no problem.)
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Again, no comment necessary. Just look at the administration for the proof in the pudding.)
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
(You’re ignorant, Bill.)
But we continue to live in our nice little seculat republic where it is illegal to teach creationism in the public schools. hehehe
no matter what bill whines and sniels about. He still will never be able to teach his horseshit in the public schools. That is the law. hehe
Amen, brother, amen.
bill and his ilk have suffered a great blow. They are desparate. He freaks out right here in front of us all. Too bad you are a loser.
“AIG Admits Defeat at Dover Trial”
Ken Looy, one of Ham’s psychophants, has an article up at AIG, which is full of distortions and inuendo, but admits:
“More distressing is the long-term impact this trial will have, and which the documentary helps forecast. An apparent precedent has been set in a federal court about the dominance of evolution teaching in public schools. School boards will now be less inclined to even think about challenging evolution teaching in their schools. In fact, with the setbacks in Pennsylvania and other states like Ohio and Georgia (where in the latter the very questioning of evolution as a fact in a textbook sticker led to a court battle), evolution will probably be taught with even greater fervor in America’s science classes.”
Evolution is never taught “with fervor.” Science is taught as science finds the natural world; one step, one discovery at a time.
In other words, we won.
The facist christo fundamentalists are crashing and burning before our very eyes.
The RR is so desperate that they published a really stupid press release that I will post later, that proves they are on the run.
They can’t even find a presidential candidate! Scum will remain scumm. And the RR wil continue to bastardize their religion.
Fundamentalism in America will ultimately become the same as the fundamentalism in Iran if we allow it to go unchecked. That is why DefCone is here. To smack down the findumbentalits. Which we do very nicely.
There will be thousands of manger scenes that will not appear on public property this year.
Peple are sick of fundamentalists trying to ram their horseshit down their throats. This shit is illegal and we’re not putting up with it any more.
If the mouth foaming fundies would have just remained the christians that they say they are, no problem. But since they are trying to take over the government and the school system, they can fu*k off. hehe
That is the messae being sent by the AMERICAN PEOPLE. Fu*k off fundies.
The fundies are responsible for bringing about their own demise.
It usually works that way. You can only get away with a scam for so long. Now, the end is near.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – This only prove why you don’t like me.
bile - you funny guy.
ChiT, 120
Thomas/Hill LIE
who got impeached again????????
6. Controlled Mass Media
(FAUX NEWS at your service!) VS. every other news service in the entire country.
Very poor example on your part.
And who should be impeached for far more serious violation of the Constitution?????
You can prove the Thomas/Hill affair was a lie? How Bill? Just because you believe it to be so?
6. Controlled Mass Media – which is what defcon has been closed down and the democraps want the fairness laws.
6. Controlled Mass Media – which is why defcon has been closed down and the democraps want the fairness laws.
So you’re admitting the mass media is controlled?
To smack down the findumbentalits. Which we do very nicely. = HATE SPEECH
8. Religion and Government - This needs no further comment.)
9. Corporate Power - Again, no comment necessary - except to say Blackwater, Haliburton, Enron, etc)
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - (No comment.)
13. Rampant Cronyism - Again, no comment necessary. Just look at the administration for the proof in the pudding.)
14. Fraudulent Elections - (No comment.)
Thank you for explaining your view in such detail.
Thank you for explaining your view in such detail.
Thank you for explaining your view in such detail.
Thank you for explaining your view in such detail.
dale wants Christian to stop existing. dale wants Christian to stop exercising their faith.
for example,
Peple are sick of fundamentalists trying to ram their horseshit down their throats. This shit is illegal and we’re not putting up with it any more.
If the mouth foaming fundies would have just remained the christians that they say they are, no problem.
Dale claims any exercise of the Christian Faith, “fundamentalists trying to ram their horseChiT down their throats.”
American is NOT a Christian free zone.
Religion has no place in government.
Then would you mind telling the fundies to get the f*ck out of the govt, Bill?
Nitwit says repeatedly: Thank you for explaining your view in such detail.
Tell me Bill, why did you try to find out Don’s location, and how many other DefCon members have you tried to track?
I doubt anyone here would say I have been evasive on my views…ever.
bile says: “Dale claims any exercise of the Christian Faith, “fundamentalists trying to ram their horseChiT down their throats.” LIAR
However, bile - what YOU do here, especially with your frequent postings of entire Bible chapters, is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of “fundie cramming” and if you don’t get that……it’s no surprise.
Wanna come over, bill?
You know you want me.
“AIG Admits Defeat at Dover Trial”
Ken Looy, one of Ham’s psychophants, has an article up at AIG, which is full of distortions and inuendo, but admits:
“More distressing is the long-term impact this trial will have, and which the documentary helps forecast. An apparent precedent has been set in a federal court about the dominance of evolution teaching in public schools. School boards will now be less inclined to even think about challenging evolution teaching in their schools. In fact, with the setbacks in Pennsylvania and other states like Ohio and Georgia (where in the latter the very questioning of evolution as a fact in a textbook sticker led to a court battle), evolution will probably be taught with even greater fervor in America’s science classes.”
Evolution is never taught “with fervor.” Science is taught as science finds the natural world; one step, one discovery at a time.
In other words, we won.
The facist christo fundamentalists are crashing and burning before our very eyes.
The Dover Trial was the death blow to the fundies aspirations to try to teach their religious myths as science.
Thank you Tammy Kitzmiller, et al.
The Dover plaintiffs, the judge, the lawyers representing the plaintiffs, and the expert witnesses who testified for the plaintiffs, are heros.
Amen to that.
American is NOT a Christian free zone.
Religion has no place in government.
religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government.
religious people have EVERY right to be an influence in government.
5 (No comment.)’s out of 14 no that is not evasive, its plain stupid.
bill agrees - The government of the United States of America is a religion-free zone. Yay!!
bill says — religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government
true - as long as they don’t use their position to promote their religion.
bill says — religious people have EVERY right to be an influence in government.
true — as long as they present themselves as citizens instead of proselytizers.
Yup OK - nitwit. Saying no further comment necessary would mean that the comment speaks perfectly for itself. I believe I had ONE no comment, on a matter I know nothing about.
But you are evasive and stupid, so I guess you have some piddly excuse for adding nothing to these threads.
Sorry, C.T. for the crossover post. Of course, you know, that I am not calling you a nitwit, nor stupid.
My 8:47 (really 7:47 EST) is for Bilbo.
Alba,
bil(ge) is a lost cause. We have given him every chance. Those of us who choose to argue with him in the future, will be identified as a fool, almost as much as the fool that we argue with.
Ignorance has no limits…We do…
November 17th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
C.T. Says:
bill says — religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government
true - as long as they don’t use their position to promote their religion.
bill says — religious people have EVERY right to be an influence in government.
true — as long as they present themselves as citizens instead of proselytizers.
So much for ignoring me.
Truth - religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government even if they use their influence to promote their religion.
Truth hurts don’t it. lol
November 17th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
C.T. Says:
bill says — religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government
true - as long as they don’t use their position to promote their religion.
bill says — religious people have EVERY right to be an influence in government.
true — as long as they present themselves as citizens instead of proselytizers.
So much for ignoring me.
Truth - religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government even if they use their influence to promote their religion.
Truth hurts don’t it. lol
Bile says: Truth - religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government even if they use their influence to promote their religion.
Truth hurts don’t it. lol
It will, Nil Bill, it will.
I don’t know what the hell he is doing by posting those sentences over and over. Like we didn’t see it the first time. SOOOO sophomric…. sorry.. I meant soooo elementary.. GAWD!!!!
Truth - religious people have EVERY right to be a part of government even if they use their influence to promote their religion.
LIE
Show me where, in American history, any atheist or non-believer, agnostic, spiritualist, whatever…..show me where any of those have lynched a person just because they were a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant.
Yet, the KKK, which claims to be a Christian organization, comprised exclusively of white Anglo-Saxon Protestant CHRISTIANS has a more than 100 year history or murden and mayhem directed at anyone who is not a WASP.
What is a newcomer to this country, perhaps a Sikh, or a Hindu or a atheist from China, who comes here to be a part of our democracy….what should they take from studying our history? Would they think that all Christians should be trusted - just because the CLAIM to be followers of Jesus?
bile’s posts prove that he is nothing more than a two-faced, lying hypocrite with too much time on his hands and nothing better to do. He is disrespectful and irrelevant. He should be getting help. Instead, he finds joy in disrupting a perfectly legitimate web site with his inperfect syntax and verbiage. He is nothing but a miserable wretch. Lost and not found.
With good there is bad. This is where I have to grind my teeth, and say, they have rights:
The Daily News, WA, USA
Nov. 14, 2007
Amy M.E. Fisher
The local spokesman for a white-supremacist church that wants to hold a public “celebration” next month at Longview’s McClelland Arts Center says he doesn’t know what the fuss is about.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/19897/zach-beck
That pesky first ammendment- The Equalizer……… It works….
I wonder if that Amy Fisher is the same Joey Buttefucco Amy Fisher.
But, (sigh) you’re right. It is indeed pesky at times. The First Amendment that is.
The most important legal document that was ever written, up until that time.
“inperfect syntax ” ya, right.
Finger gesture.
“…Yet, the KKK, which claims to be a Christian organization, ”
first the KKK WAS a democrap organization
second, the real KKK no longer exist, Todays groups are only Wanttabes.
Third, as a Black Man in America you do not need to teach me anything about the Klan.
Fourth it was DoorKnob who brought up the “democrap organization” the KKK Klan comparing the democrap Klan with republicans.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Albatross Says:
Finger gesture.
That’s a manure response.
No, it was you. I believe that you felt it would be relevant to post about six posts in a row on Sen Byrd.
Second, it is technically “WANNABE’s” and you’ve been educated on this before.
Third, I believe nothing you say about anything, including the color of your skin. You played the race card here.
Fourth, the KKK has stood for the same sorry position for 100 yrs. White Christian purity.
Yes it is a manure response. Shit for shit. You can roll in the manure while admiring my finger gesture. If you’d like the visual effects to go with it…here you are:
F*ck you.
I wear your hate as a badge of honor. Thank You
You believe wrong, baby. my “six posts in a row on Sen Byrd.” where after doorknob’s post.
Bill’s a DefCon “Wanttabe.”
Are you a Jesus Wanttable, too, you moron?
Ooooh, Baby! I love it when you talk that way, but watch out, I think you’ve already sought out Don. Ohhhh. I get it. Bilbo swings both ways. Not interested in scum, BABY.
Which thread was that, BTW, with the Byrd posts?
LOL, do your own homework.
I will know by your silents that you found it.
You have no interest in truth, do you???
btw, specking about being interested in the TRUTH,
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-paid-it-all.htm
Excerpts from Jesus Paid It All
I hear the Savior say
Thy strength indeed is small
Child of weakness….watch and pray
Find in me….thine all in all
Chorus:
Jesus paid it all
All to Him I owe
Sin hath left a crimson stain
He washed it white as snow
Lord, now indeed I find
Thy power and Thine alone
Can change the leper’s spots
And melt the heart of stone
For nothing good have I
Whereby Thy grace to claim
I’ll wash my garments white
In the blood of Calvary’s Lamb
And when before thy throne
I stand in Him complete
Jesus died my soul to save
My lips shall still repeat
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-paid-it-all.htm
Jesus Paid It All - Scriptures that may have…
“silents” “specking”
Put spell check on for JESUS CHRIST’S SAKE.
Did you find it yet???
everyone is waiting.
170
Jesus Christ: Savior and King
Who is this man who claimed to be God? What were the major events in Jesus Christ’s life on Earth? Was Jesus Christ truly the Savior of the world? Study the life of this Man and learn how He can impact your life. As you study, keep in mind what He said while on Earth: “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many” (Matthew 20:28).
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/
Be real! I have no intention of looking. You lie all the time.
Going to find something interesting to watch. You’re about as interesting as Sesame St. Speaking of Ses. St. did you know that Fatwell said Bert and Ernie were gay? Just like Tinky Wink.
Your found it and you know you made a mistake. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Dorris Says:
Dale, your link at the beginning of this thread was really eye-opening. No one but the RR whackos could get away with putting this kind of hate-filled shit out in public. How are the people that believe this crap any different from the KKK or the NeoNazis? Un-friggin-believable.
You see how long it took me to find your evidence.
Fourth, the KKK has stood for the same sorry position for 100 yrs. White Christian purity.
I firmly stand against the Klan, which stood for “White purity”, and was a democrap power house.
Ku Klux Klan (KKK) is the name of organizations in the United States that have advocated white supremacy, racism, anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, homophobia, anti-Communism and nativism.
“anti-Catholicism,” so much for being Christian
wiki
As historian Elaine Frantz Parsons discovered:
“Lifting the Klan mask revealed a chaotic multitude of antiblack vigilante groups, disgruntled poor white farmers, wartime guerrilla bands, displaced Democratic politicians,
illegal whiskey distillers, coercive moral reformers, bored young men, sadists, rapists, white workmen fearful of black competition, employers trying to enforce labor discipline, common thieves, neighbors with decades-old grudges, and
even a few freedmen and white Republicans who allied with Democratic whites or had criminal agendas of their own. Indeed, all they had in common, besides being overwhelmingly white, southern, and Democratic, was that they called themselves, or were called, Klansmen.