Meet Our New DefCon Blogger
Over the last week you may have noticed posts from a new face, Eliza. Eliza will be joining me as a regular poster on DefConBlog.org, ensuring that we stay on top of any and all of the religious right’s intolerant campaigns to impose their ideology on all Americans and of course their incredible hypocrisy.
Check out Eliza’s most recent post on the latter below.
Welcome, Eliza.
Clark, Eliza, allow us to take a moment to introduce our troll. Bill, please stand up and introduce yourself. Now, I could be wrong, Clark, after all, the internet is a BIG place, but I’d like to remind you and everyone else about when this poster first appeared, and who is his primary source of information. I really think you ruffled some feathers over at AiG. Keep up the good work, Clark.
Eliza, thanks for your contributions and I hope there will be plenty more and same to you Clark. This has been at once enlightening and entertaining (with a little frustration and consternation thrown in for flavor).
Keep up the good fight.
I also extend my welcome to you, Eliza.
For everyone, I just came across this story posted at Americans United. This morning, in the US Senate, the first Hindu chaplain in many, many years who had been invited to give the opening prayer, had his prayer distrupted by relgious-right activists and called the Hindu chaplain’s opening prayer an “abomination.” Here is the story.
http://www.au.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr011=2go3jubpa1.app7b&abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=9237&security=1002&news_iv_ctrl=1241
Since it had been announced earlier that Hindu Chaplain Rajan Zed had been invited to give the opening prayer around a month or so ago, the extreme religious-right has been in full meltdown mode - urging its followers to flood the Senate phone banks and demand that Mr. Zed not be allowed to give the opening prayer. Although the Hindu chaplain’s prayer did include passages from the Hindu faith, he made all attempts to ensure that his prayer was not overly sectarian and to be as inclusive as possible.
This type of protest demonstrates the full intolerance of the religious-right. They demand that the government permit and endorse public displays of religion, but only when it is their specific religion that is promoted.
Whether or not these freakazoids ever accept it or not, this country is not a Christian nation, was never intended to be founded as a Christian nation, and in fact has many American citizens who are either not of the Christian faith or have no religious beliefs at all. And all are protected by the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.
Tony, that was absolutely horrific. I feel like putting signs on my front lawn screaming, “We’re not all intolerant.” What a disgrace these people are to America.
AU also had another story that I thought was deserving of some recognition. Another religious person seeing what fundamentalism is doing in America, and in the political arena specifically.
http://blog.au.org/2007/07/10/repentant-evangelicals-conservative-christians-reconsider-salvation-through-politics/
My son is asking me repeatedly why this focus on religiosity of political candidates is not considered a violation of the Constitution. He’s paying a lot of attention right now to the state of this country, and politics in particular, as he will be able to vote for the first time by the next election. He is questioning though, whether it really matters anymore. I have told him that being vocal, and voting, is our last hope for restoring America’s true ideals.
This link is to David Barton (who with the fanatic D. Wildmon, opposed the Hindu prayer). Read and weep for democracy.
http://www.wallbuilders.com/
July 12th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Albatross Says:
Welcome, Eliza.
Clark, Eliza, allow us to take a moment to introduce our troll. Bill,
Howdy Eliza.
Oh and I loved the survey,
The following is a copy of the survey from http://defconamerica.org/creationmuseum/creation_poll.pdf titled Evangelicals Reject Creation Museum’s Story
Latest DeathCob poll (page 4) show 32% believe the Creation Museum is Biblically Accurate or even the Literal Word of God.
And 89 % claimed the museum is Scientifically Sound
Page 5 reports that most religious voters hardly ever… (okay page 5 makes no sense )
However page 6 clearly shows that “A strong majority of voters overall believe in creationism” with only 16% NOT SURE
Page (7) explains that 93 % favor “solidly favor traditional creationism” over ID
And it looks like page 8 claims that once a week 3% of most religious voters believe “All animals, including man, evolved from a common ancestor millions of years ago, but this process is guided by nature without a Creator.
The survey reached a nationwide sample of 800 likely voters in the 2008 general election. The survey was conducted between June 18thand 21th, 2007.
None of the people survey claimed to have been to the creationism museum
Key Findings • Voters, including evangelicals, rejected the creationism museum after never seeing it..
“Our founders wanted separation of church and state and full religious liberty for all faith traditions.” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director.
Bill said, Amen.
(This shows the intolerance of “A” Religious activists.)
Some people say they want more religion in the public square, but it’s clear they mean only their religion. Other said they want NO religion in the public square, and it’s clear they mean ALL religion.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:31 am
This type of protest demonstrates the full intolerance of THESE PEOPLE. They demand that the government permit and endorse public displays of religion, but only when it is their specific religion that is promoted.
How does the action of 2 people or 10 students and a Professor speak for millions.
http://media.www.thenortherner.com/media/storage/paper527/news/2006/04/12/News/Right.To.Life.Group.To.Press.Charges.Against.Protestors-1851538.shtml?sourcedomain=www.thenortherner.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
Does this speak for all Libby’s
Friday, April 14, 2006
Pro-Life Display Destroyed at NKU
Sally Jacobsen, a longtime professor in NKU’s literature and language department, said the display was dismantled by about nine students in one of her graduate-level classes.
“I did, outside of class during the break, invite students to express their freedom-of-speech rights to destroy the display if they wished to,” Jacobsen said.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Abortion%2C+Free+Speech%2C+Sally+Jacobsen%2C+Northern+Kentucky+University&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8
Albatross wrote: “Clark, Eliza, allow us to take a moment to introduce our troll.”
See what we mean?
HOWDEEEE Eliza!
Bill : a good “final solution” would be to round up ALL religionists, delouse them and march them into death camps!
NO?
To much hyperbole?
Offered only to incite?
Reserved only for jews, gypsies, incompetents and political opponents?
Why am I so popular? I’ve been introduced ton the new girl. Why do you folks give me all this attention?
I’m going to treat this as sort of an open thread.
“Leveling the Praying Field”
A president has to be a preacher of sorts, instructing, consoling, summoning citizens to sacrifice for some common good. But candidates are competitors, which means they seldom manage to talk about faith in a way that doesn’t disturb people, doesn’t divide them, doesn’t nail campaign posters on the gates of heaven. Republicans have been charged with exploiting religious voters, Democrats with ignoring them: Hillary Clinton’s voice gets tight as she recalls the mocking response she received when she first spoke in spiritual terms about the longing that people felt to invest in causes larger than self-interest. “I talked about my faith years ago and was pilloried for it,” she says, and it is hard to tell if she is more impatient with the conservatives who presumed they held the patent on piety or with the liberals whose worship of diversity all but excluded the devout.
But maybe, she suggests, candidates have learned something from the holy wars of recent years. “Maybe we’re getting back to where people can be who they are,” she says. “If faith is an element of who you legitimately, authentically are, great. But don’t make it up, don’t use it, don’t beat people over the head with it.” …
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1642649,00.html?cnn=yes
Earlier I wrote about how earlier this morning, in the US Senate, the first Hindu chaplain to have been invited to give the opening prayer, had his prayer distrupted by relgious-right activists and called the Hindu chaplain’s opening prayer an “abomination.” Well, the folks over at thinkprogress.org posted a video of the disturbance.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/12/christian-right-disrupts-first-hindu-prayer-in-the-senate/
I wish I was there - I would have punched that arrogant, self-righteous, christian fascist in his pie-hole and rammed his bible were Leviticus says it shouldn’t go. Absolutely shameful and disrespectful behavior; and Christians wonder why they are getting such a bad reputation in this country.
Tony, that was disgusting. These people with their holier-than-thou attitude, who would like to dictate morality truly no no shame.
no bodies being mean, so I’ll just be quiet.
Hey, Eliza, welcome aboard ! Wanna hook up?
Tony, Alba,
Here’s Perkins’ personal response to all this. He’s totally indignent.
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?c=HOME
Oooh! Is the term Judeo-Christian falling our of fashion? I noticed Tony P didn’t use it, and my understanding is that it “bothers” some of the Jews. Thanks, Dale.
Hello, Eliza, and welcome.
Hi Eliza! Welcome aboard!
_________________
More ignorance and intolerance, how lovely. When will these fundamentalists actually get it?
(I know, I know, when hell freezes over).
Or Earth freezes over…oh, wait that’s right…we’re getting warmer. Hell’s rising.Hi Carla.
Three flat planes. Hell, below. Heaven above. Sinners in between. The devil is rising. Jesus is God. I am a sinner. Earth is 6,000 yrs old. I have a pet dinosaur. America is a Christian nation. Science is evil.
Thank you, Bill. I’m sorry I called you an ignorant asshole and a troll.
Prayer to Whom?
by: Tony Perkins
No one can legitimately challenge the fact that the God America refers to in the pledge, our national motto, and other places is the monotheistic God of the Jewish and Christian faith. There is no historic connection between America and the polytheistic creed of the Hindu faith. I seriously doubt that Americans want to change the motto, “In God we Trust, which Congress adopted in 1955, to, “In gods we Trust.” That is essentially what the United States Senate did today.
Open response to Mr. Perkins
Mr. Perkins I am one who can legitimately challenge the belief that the God of our pledge and our national motto is limited only to the God of the Jewish and Christian faith. The supposed “fact”, of no historic connection between America and the polytheistic creed of the Hindu faith doesn’t make any difference.
From the religious freedom of the Native American to the freedom from religion of the American atheists our nation must respect the religious beliefs or lack of beliefs of all Americans. During World War II our nation shamefully ask young black men to go and die to keep people in other lands free when at the same time those same black men did not have the same freedoms at home. How can we ask a young Hindu to risk death in military service in order to protect the religious freedom of only people of the Jewish and Christian faith? How can we tell our children that America is the land of religious freedom, except of course, for those that don’t believe as we do.
As the late black poet Langston Hughes ask upon returning home after World War II, “Here in my own, my native land, Will the Jim Crow laws still stand?” Today all free Americans must ask, here in his own native land, can the rights and freedoms of the Hindu stand.
This is my favorite work from Langston Hughes,
Will V-Day Be Me-Day Too?
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/will-v-day-be-me-day-too/
EXCELLENT 11:31 pm post Bill.
Yahweh,
You surely don’t think that “bill” actully wrote that by himself do you?
Please note that bill is now referring to himself as Bill_from_defcon.
I have to agree with Yah on Bill’s 11:31p.m. post. Very good, Bill.
Someone must have ghost written that for Bill. He’s never displayed that type of syntax or organisation in his prose.
I am with you Dale on the writing of that response to Tony P.
I also would like to make it clear that I believe that once a troll has been outed, they will continue to try and align themselves until they are “back in,” and then will resort to old tactics. I think we are still best off to heed Tony’s advice, and continue to leave him on the “Do not reply to” list. I believe that this troll is under the sporadic guidance/payroll of someone else.
hi dalebird, in reply to your above comment,
Definition of dalebird - because any thing said by dale well be agree to by Albatross, which is a big bird, it is easier to type one name, therefore dalebird.
I had no comments on this page for two days, so dalebird just had to insult me. :
Hey Dale and others.
. My husband, brothers, father all tell me I’m a witch, but I do not call myself a Wiccan! Romanian gypsy, and 1/2 fookin Irish, waxxer! Carla, you’re passionate about your beliefs, and always have informative interesting posts, and share well your ideas of the issue. Thanks, everyone, for giving me a forum, even when we don’t agree of things. (…OK, you too, Mark, though sometimes you do light the match beneath my ass!)
I’d like to share. As you all know, I do enjoy it here at DefCon. I especially appreciate that there have been so many ideas that have been discussed here, but because there is a lot in common, most of us have agreed to respect each other’s differences and appreciate each other’s similarities. Like the time that I shared something, not in defense of a post about Kent Hovind, but about my beliefs about vaccinations. They may classify as “conspiracy theory” ideas. I even gave Dale the go ahead to rank on me. Guess what? He didn’t. Whenever I have asked Alex, yahweh, Tony, or anybody else for more leads on a subject matter, I have been directed to excellent sources of intelligence. Lynne and I both have Dirt Devils
Oh, Don Rettmann, we’re hijacking your Peter Pan, making pit stops and traveling south to Alabama. You see Lynne’s fancy lodge?
Woo hoo!
Oh, troll? You add nothing, and Dale and I don’t agree on everything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
The word troll is often and easily (mis)used as an ad hominem attack against someone whose viewpoints and input cannot otherwise be silenced (i.e., via banning). Its successful use and misuse reveals much about how starkly different the world of technicians is compared to normal social and political discourse
The name “troll” as applied to an internet persona is often used very appropriately used to identify someone who serves no other purpose but to disrupt a discussion or debate which is contrary to his or her perspective. Mostly the troll’s purpose is to ignite anger, and further frustrate the flow of conversation through many different tactics and techniques, rather than a true attempt to share conversation with others of differing views. Often their effort is a disguised attempt to create so much chaos and confusion, so as to deter regular posters from frequenting the blogosphere all together.
When asked why they are frequenting this place where they share no common ideas or ability to communicate their thoughts, they tend to quote Bible passages.
they tend to quote Bible passages.
dalebird, when was the last time I quoted a bible verse?
Mythological creatures do not exist. Ignore the “troll”.
dalebird claims, they tend to quote Bible passages.
dalebird, when was the last time I quoted a bible verse?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
The word troll is often and easily (mis)used as an ad hominem attack against someone whose viewpoints and input cannot otherwise be silenced (i.e., via banning). Its successful use and misuse reveals much about how starkly different the world of technicians is compared to normal social and political discourse
People of faith must unite to: Defend religious liberty, Challenge and expose religious hated and religious bigotry.
Albatross, maybe if you ask them, I’ll be given the assignment to drive the coach.
But, Don, hijacking you and the bus seems so much more rebellious!
These Hindu protestors were weak, we need to learn the proper way to protest from you anti-war types read this article. http://wizbangblog.com/content/2007/07/09/airman-shot-to-make-a-statement-on-independence-day.php
I agree, Albatross. More rebellious and also more fun. We’ll just have to figure out how to turn off the security camera.
wirecutters.
Eliza, Why won’t you post this?
Museum nears 100K visitors
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/NEWS0103/307200044
Museum nears 100K visitors BY BRENNA KELLY | BKELLY@ENQUIRER.COM
PETERSBURG – The parking lot is filled by 10 a.m. The line stretches out of the door. Inside hundreds more wait to tour the Creation Museum.
Today, less than two months after it opened, the Creation Museum expects to top 100,000 visitors.
Officials had previously said they hoped for at least 250,000 visitors in the first year.
“The crowds have just been getting bigger every day since opening,” said Mike Zovath, vice president of museum operations. “It’s really exciting, we’re pretty pleased with the response.” Fridays and Saturdays have proved to be the busiest days…
“Sometimes it’s an hour and a half in the ticket line and another hour to get into the museum,” Zovath said. The first two Saturdays in July have more visitors than previous Saturday, Zovath said. He expects about 3,500 people to come through the museum today, just about 500 less than attended on opening day. “It’s pretty exciting,” he said. “But there are quite a few challenges as well to make sure everybody enjoys the experience.”