Misrepresenting Science to Halt Abortions
The cover story on the February 26th edition of Time Magazine focuses on the most recent tactic employed by the religious right in their war on a woman’s right to control her own body — Crisis Pregnancy Centers. These centers capitalize on fear and the misrepresentation of medical data to push an anti-health agenda on pregnant women.
Focus on the Family is on the frontlines of this movement, providing centers across the country with free ultrasound machines. Unfortunately, instead of being used to benefit the health of the patient, the machines are being exploited as part of the Crisis Centers’ misinformation campaign. Of course Focus couldn’t be more proud of this reality.
When it comes to misinformation, the article clearly chronicles the abuse of data that goes on in these centers.
If a woman is “abortion minded,” Wilson says, “then we go over the medical risks–and there’s research for this, even though the other side says there’s not.” She ticks off grim possibilities with fervor: “The research is that breast cancer is more prevalent. You have the rupture of the uterus. Infection is major. The risk of ectopic pregnancy is greater later on.” It is this discussion of risk that most enrages defenders of abortion rights, especially doctors who routinely see terrified women who come in for an abortion after hearing such warnings and ask over and over, “Am I going to die?”
Despite restricted access, abortion remains one of the most common surgical procedures in the U.S. for women and, according to the Guttmacher Institute, fewer than 0.3% of patients experience a complication serious enough to require hospitalization. First-trimester abortions in particular are considered extremely safe. After years of debate about breast cancer and abortion, the U.S. National Cancer Institute in February 2003 gathered the world’s leading experts to review the data and assess the risk. They stated that their conclusion that “induced abortion is not associated with an increase in breast cancer risk”was “well established,” the institute’s highest rating for research findings.
But none of that convinces Wilson. “It’s a money issue,” she says of the studies rejecting a breast-cancer risk. “The abortion people have a lot of money. If there’s a study, I want to know who’s sponsoring it because nine times out of 10, it’s skewed to the money.” It’s hard to imagine what it would take–certainly not a ruling from the U.S. National Cancer Institute–to change her mind.
Yep, It’s all about the money. I hear there are HUGE profit margins in abortion. Plus, just think of all of the doctors that rely on abortion services to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads! Kill babies, kill babies, kill babies….and rake in the dough!!
I will find the link later and post it, but I have talked of these centers before. Congress has moved to take some steps because of what these places actually do. They position themselves most often near or in the same building as a Planned Parenthood clinic, but work it that their name sounds similar and is positioned higher up on the building directory. When a young girl walks in here inadvertently, “Dr.’s” and staff in white coats are ready and waiting. The first thing that they do is an “ultrasound.” One girl reported that she was six weeks along, had missed one menstrual cycle, but the image that appeared on the monitor was that of a six month old fetus. Printed on the bottom of the monitor were the words, “I love you, Mommy. Don’t kill me.”
I have seen ads for CareNet hiring a sonographer - No experience necessary! They are inextricably linked to the abstinence-only educators, often sharing the same staff.
Alpha Center, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota - founded by Leslie Unruh, who also funded National Abstinence Clearinghouse. We’re off to see the Wizard! See my post on other thread.
This clinic was investigated back in the early nineties, I believe, as there was question as to the adoption practices. Apparantly the Unruhs set up a “safe house” in their basement, and made arrangements for the adoptions of the babies.
Eric Koroacke(sp?), is now in charge of Family Planning at DHHS, a Bush appointee, also ran a crisis pregnancy center in Boston. I think he was the one who said a woman with PMS and other female problems should spend more time reading the Bible. For sure, he was the one who said birth control was degrading to a woman.
The 1984 doublespeak is alive and well at DefCon.
Any organization that would dare help a young woman find a way to keep her unborn baby to term is “pushing an anti-health agenda” and infringing on “womans right to control her body” and is “captilizing on fear”. Woe be unto them for they have stepped on the bloodied shoes of the abortionist. Woe be unto them for offering life rather than death as a choice.
Woe be unto diminished conscripts admiring the foolish and whimsical utterings and transcriptions inherited from lesser fathers full with dubious intent.
LOL, damn Jumper did you even read the article? You know the part about using a brochure that only references literature from the 1960’s? Where even the anti-abortion advocate admitted it was misleading and should be corrected?
Or how about the part where the Planned Parenthood provider was trying to work her self out of a job?
I’m all for discussing the options with the woman using the facts, but using data from the 1960’s that has since been shown to be false? Give me a freaking break. I personally am against abortion and wouldn’t advocate it for anyone I know, but I realize that is my personal choice and I would never resort to lying to a person to try and make them chose my way. But of course a known fibber such as yourself I guess its not a big problem eh??
There goes Mark Jumper again, smiting everyone.
Woe be unto them those who willingly choose to debate holy scripture with him, for only Mark Jumper is able to authoritatively interpret the “true meaning” of the Bible and thus, is the only legitimate “true christian.”
Not only that, but Jumper is the only who can magically determine which gospels were divine and which were written by man. Funny he never got back to me about how he determines that. I guess if I knew the power of his all knowing brain I would go insane. LOL.
This thread is soooooo biased is laughable.
I know that some of you hate the idea that an organization is helping women to choose life for their baby.
No Jumper, I hate the fact that an organization is using literature that is 40 years out of date and riddled with falsehoods to overstate its case, but an asshat such as yourself doesn’t mind telling a lie or two to promote your agenda, so you don’t see a problem.
Jumper runs to the defense of his brethern liars everywhere. If you lie, Mark will be there to defend you, rest assured. LOL.
It’s the mark jumper comedy hour!!
Tonight’s show:
- Fertilized eggs are human life!
- The absence of thoughts and emotions doesn’t make a blastocyst any less human than a born person!
- Abortion is murder, plain and simple. Killing a potential person is the same as killing a real person!
- Don’t argue with me about abortion or the bible. I am right and you are wrong, stupid, confused, and need to find jesus!
- Watch me fluster the debate by dodging questions, changing the subject, lying, moving the goalposts, or simply applying my dizzying authoritative logic!
- Watch as I make countless assertions without legitimate citation!
- Watch as I ask you to prove god is not real!
- Watch me feel good about myself as I demonstrate my piety to the lost heathen souls!
- And much, much, more self-diluted, egotistical, admonishments, bereft of any intellectual integrity or honesty whatsoever!
LOL, I love you, Alex! You brighten my day.
This thread is “biased” because we would like to see women be given CORRECT, FACTUAL, UP-TO-DATE information with which to make an INFORMED choice regarding whether to abort or to continue a pregnancy?
McGinn / Lynne,
ULTRA SOUNDS don’t lie and they convey CORRECT, FACTUAL, UP-TO-DATE information with which to make an INFORMED choice. They convey a fact to the mother - a baby is developing.
Sorry that you HATE that McGinn.
But lying to them regarding breast cancer and ectopic pregnancy statisitics is CORRECT, FACTUAL, UP-TO-DATE information…
Sorry, bud, but you are screwed there.
I think that Stephanie meant to say: “But lying to them regarding breast cancer and ectopic pregnancy statisitics is not [conveying] CORRECT, FACTUAL, UP-TO-DATE information…”
I really wonder why so many social conservative, values-voter-type activists who identify themselves as Christians seem to always forget about that particular Commandment.
That’s right McGinn - you Ultra-Sound HATER! You too Lynne!!
What ever did ultrasonic compression waves ever do to you!!!
Besides, the pregnant mother would NEVER know that “a baby is developing” inside of her - I mean come on, what do women know about these things anyway?!
Without the ultrasound machine we would never be able to see the baby say “I love you mommy, please don’t kill me”!
That’s the most disgusting part of it. I can’t believe that they actually print that on the screen! How manipulative! It’s disgusting. I have no problem with them wanting to change minds, but providing incorrect information and using emotional manipulation is definitely wrong.
What, Alex, no “I love you ” back? What gives?
;-)
Steph,
Normally I prefer to refrain from feeding the Stephanego….but being one who also wishes to not sew any discord in our exchanges I’ll acquiesce by saying I love you too, in a manner of speaking, more or less.
Don’t worry Alex, blog I love yous are not like the in person I love yous. They are much less pernicious.
Whoa, WTF is “Stephanego”?!?!
Very clever.
Here’s the link I mentioned on Leslie Unruh:
“Leslee Unruh, Founder and PresidentPrior to starting the Clearinghouse, Unruh founded the Alpha Center, a crisis pregnancy center, which is currently the recipient of a 3-year, $294,962 federal abstinence-only grant. The Alpha
Center was fined after pleading no contest to misdemeanor charges of unlicensed adoption and foster care practices in 1987. Allegedly, Unruh was offering money to women who agreed to carry their pregnancies to term and then put their children up for adoption instead of having an abortion.”
I’ve referred to the prosperous black-market baby rings before. These people are raking in the bucks from the fed govt and from unlicensed adoption. Yep, they’re good Christians.
http://legalmomentum.org/legalmomentum/files/nationalabstinenceclearinghouse.pdf.
I’m still searching for the link on the fake sonograms/ultrasounds.
Here is the article that mentioned CPC’s using photos of older fetuses. And MJ, before you go saying it’s biased, you’re probably right. It is not a news source; it’s just an article written, but I knew I had read it, and so here is the link:
http://campusprogress.org/features/1051/uncle-sams-pregnancy-scam
Still looking for the one where they had written “I Love You Mommy…”
Mark Jumper Says:
McGinn / Lynne,
ULTRA SOUNDS don’t lie and they convey CORRECT, FACTUAL, UP-TO-DATE information with which to make an INFORMED choice. They convey a fact to the mother - a baby is developing.
Most often that’s the truth, Mark, but not always. Just as you can Dr. a photo of Maddona, I’m sure it isn’t hard to fix an ultrasound machine to deceive a woman. I have seen ads for sonographers for these places - the ads say “No experience necessary!” So, give me a freaking break.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1415550.ece
John McGinn Says:
No Jumper, I hate the fact that an organization is using literature that is 40 years out of date and riddled with falsehoods to overstate its case, but an asshat such as yourself doesn’t mind telling a lie or two to promote your agenda, so you don’t see a problem.
John McGinn, you should respect life at all costs!
The sick practice of abortion should be illegal regardless of how far a long a woman is!
Did you know that recently a woman gave birth to a 5 month old baby that lived outside the womb on a respirator? Second and third trimester abortions are legal in most states!
Albatross Says:
Here is the article that mentioned CPC’s using photos of older fetuses. And MJ, before you go saying it’s biased, you’re probably right. It is not a news source; it’s just an article written, but I knew I had read it, and so here is the link:
Have you ever had an abortion?????
I’ve had an ultrasounds, so I am certainly able to tell the difference between a six week fetus and that of a six month old fetus.
You really are a stupid ass, you know it? You should have been an abortion.
All,
Any person or entity that provides incorrect, outdated medical information is WRONG and should update their information.
Any person or entity who participates in the killing of an unborn baby for conveinence is WRONG and should cease and desist.
Albatross - nobody should be an abortion.
Alex,
Answer this - Are you glad your Mom didn’t abort you?
There we go, yet another case of abortion, except she tried to do it her self. An 18 year old immigrant from the Dominican republic is now being tried and they are attempting to stamp a murder charge on her. Its kind of sad that they would rather ruin her life, instead of allowing her to live her life, and making clinics more available to everyone, which will in effect give them a better decision making power.
http://www.alternet.org/sex/48064/
I dont see how charging her with murder is going to solve anything.
Making abortion illegal is only going to force other women to head for different alternatives just like this woman did because it wasnt available to her. Atleast having it legal will allow “real” doctors to offer a safer alternative for the female.
No mj,
I’m very sad your mom didn’t abort you.
Your logic is so warped.
For example……
Don’t you miss your cottage in the rockies that you might own some day? How about that kick-ass jet you might own some day - remember how fast it flew and the killer sound system?
You are mixing past and present - potential and real. They don’t mix. It is incongruent.
If my mother aborted my fetus I wouldn’t have known about it. “I” did not exist. That is because “I” am the culmination of thoughts, feelings, and experience as processed by my BRAIN. A blastocyst does not have a brain, ergo does not have an ego or id - there is no “I” in a first trimester abortion.
A pitiful question.
Alex says:
If my mother aborted my fetus I wouldn’t have known about it. “I” did not exist. That is because “I” am the culmination of thoughts, feelings, and experience as processed by my BRAIN. A blastocyst does not have a brain, ergo does not have an ego or id - there is no “I” in a first trimester abortion.
A pitiful question.
Alex, you obviously have no regard for a human life; a beating heart!
If one of your family members was lying on a hospital bed and that person was in a vegetative state, would you let the doctor kill your dearest family member with out a second thought?
I am sure the process would be less gruesome then the process of grinding a baby fetus up.
You see, Alex is a perfect example of someone who has no faith or moral equivalents.
Dear Mark,
My wife and I have sent three precious Sons to Iraq. My two oldest Sons Sgt H. C. and Sgt D. C. both United States Marines were deployed in Iraq at the beginning of the war. My youngest Son Petty Officer 3rd Class D. C. has just been deployed there as part of the latest increase in carrier presence in the Persian Gulf. These three young men are among the best and brightest our country has. They volunteered willingly to serve their country. I have never heard them complain about having to go even though it was a sacrifice for their families. The oldest lost everything he had including his wife while in Iraq. Yet he took it in stride and rebuilt his life and his state without cursing his fate or his country. I hear these brave souls lecture us in the halls of congress as though they were making the ultimate sacrifice for all of us. They know nothing about sacrifice. They know nothing about those of us who have sent our most precious treasure in life into harm’s way. They know nothing of the sleepless nights lying awake hoping to catch a glimpse of them by means of some imbedded reporter and then hoping to God it doesn’t really happen. They know nothing of the months of no contact and fearing every knock on the door. Yet they stand in those sacred halls and praise themselves for striking a victory for the American people by passing some damnable resolution that does nothing but inflict an unthinkable wound in the heart of these brave selfless young Americans. This is the ultimate friendly fire incident.
Some brilliant mind named Arkin suggested that our Sons are no more than mercenaries. With my limited intelligence, that word brings to mind visions of “hired guns” or “soldiers of fortune”. But let me share with you a quote from one of my Marines in an email that he was able to send to us from Iraq. He may not have been so eloquent in what he said, but his words I will never forget. He said, “…I sure miss Mom’s cooking. Sleeping in on Saturdays and smelling her biscuits and gravy and pancakes cooking. I don’t want you guys to worry about me, cause I’ll be just fine. I want you to know that I love you and that I’m here to protect you.”
That sure sounds like a soldier of fortune doesn’t it, Mark. I’m sorry for these ramblings. I go out and sit in my truck every night to listen to your show on our local station. I just didn’t know to whom I could tell these things other than someone like you who believes as I do. Thanks for all you do and never give up the good fight. I know our young men and women in uniform won’t, God bless their souls.
Sincerely,
DC
And Father of three of America’s bravest!
I caught your show for the first time in a month or so tonight via the internet and both my wife and I would like to tell you how much we appreciate the letter you read from the father of three sons in the military. We also have three kids, two boys and a girl, all in the army. the oldest has spent two tours in Iraq and the youngest son is currently there with the 7th Cavalry Regiment. Our girl is now stationed in Korea and will, no doubt, be deployed to Iraq within the next year or two.
There is no way to describe the concerns we have for our children, but we have always taught them that there sometimes is a higher calling which you must always endeaver to do your best to accomplish. Serving their country in a time of war is one of them.
When our youngest son surprised my wife early one morning last month as he came home on mid-term leave from Iraq, he was dressed in his desert camos and all my wife saw was a uniform thru the window. She nearly fainted as we know very well how the army notifies relatives of the death of a soldier—in person, in uniform. You see, that is the thought that is always with us, day and night as long as one of them is in harm’s way.
I despise all the Murtha’s, Kennedys and others of their ilk who not only jeopardize my kids with their encouragement and enabling of our enemies, but the bottom line is the intense feelings of pride and accomplishment my wife and I feel for our children. The Murtha’s and Kennedy’s can go to hell. I know where my kids are going.
Thanks
Abortion is as old as mankind. Woman long ago didn’t need a Dr. to end a pregnancy.
Using emotional manipulation, deception, brainwashing techniques, false assurances of assistance or God providing, to convince a woman what to do with her body and her life is wrong.
I would not want my family member lying in a vegetative state to continue to “live” that way, nor would I want to live that way. It’s not living you see. It’s exactly like you said - it’s a vegetable - a non-thinking, non-feeling thing. The “soul” if you’d like, is already gone.
As for the copy of your letter from someone hating the Kennedys and the Murthas for wanting to end the war, there are countless other letters from the parents of dead or permanenlt maimed that have been written hating the Bush’ and the Cheneys for starting the war. Endless, polarized discussion. Just like abortion.
LJR,
You truely do not know why we are laughing at you, you pathetic person.
Albert says:
Using emotional manipulation, deception, brainwashing techniques, false assurances of assistance or God providing, to convince a woman what to do with her body and her life is wrong.
So if I walked up to a woman who was 2 months pregnant and kicked her in the stomac should I be charged with murder?
Would you be if you poked her eye out? Dumb ass.
Albert??? To whom are you addressing your question, moron? This question has already been addressed many times. I guess you missed it or “forgot” ? Either way, you’re still a moron.
Mental midget LJR wrote: “If one of your family members was lying on a hospital bed and that person was in a vegetative state, would you let the doctor kill your dearest family member with out a second thought?”
If that family member of mine had a living will that specified their desire not to be kept alive artificially in a vegetative state, then yes, I would have no problem allowing the doctor to carry out that last wish. If that family member was married, and had instructed their spouse not to keep them alive artificially in a vegetative state, then yes, I would be both loving and supporting towards that spouse for having to make such a difficult and emotional choice.
Several years ago, my father had undergone heart bypass surgery. Before his surgery, he had a living will legally drawn up requesting that no artificial means be carried out to keep him alive if the surgery failed, and my mother and my brothers were all witness to it. Fortunately, his surgery was successful. But if not, I was ready to respect his final wishes, even if carrying out those wishes would have been emotionally painful for all of our family to bear.
LJR,
Wow! Thanks for the note regarding your son’s service to our country. I know you are very proud of them.
There is nothing more honorable, in our capacity as a citizen, than to volunteer and serve our Nation as Soldier, Seaman, Marine or Airman.
MJ - are you as deluded as LJR??? He didn’t write those letters!!!!!! Wow, and to think that I had given you just a little bit of credit for some semblance of intelligence. LJR has not yet learned to use quotations, or proper citations to show where he has received a piece of information from.
My guess would be that he is not a parent at all, and I even question whether he is married. Whether in fact he is even a Marine, or a soldier as he says, is highly questionable.
I’m glad you and he have found company in each other’s idiocy.
LJR post at 10:47 am: “My wife and I have sent three precious Sons to Iraq. My two oldest Sons Sgt H. C. and Sgt D. C. both United States Marines were deployed in Iraq at the beginning of the war. My youngest Son Petty Officer 3rd Class D. C. has just been deployed there as part of the latest increase in carrier presence in the Persian Gulf.”
… I’m sorry for these ramblings. I go out and sit in my truck every night to listen to your show on our local station.
LJR post at 10:48 am: “I caught your show for the first time in a month or so tonight via the internet and both my wife and I would like to tell you how much we appreciate the letter you read from the father of three sons in the military. We also have three kids, two boys and a girl, all in the army.”
Somehow I doubt that those posts are of LJR’s actual family. Rather, I suspect that LJR is simply cutting and pasting some radio or TV show transcripts in an attempt to make some point that is totally unrelated to the subject of this thread.
Unless, of course, Mark Jumper has some radio or TV show that we are unaware of…
Geeze…and to think, that Kentucky is breeding thousands of LJR’s as we speak.
Scary…
I’m sure this is really no surprise to Rep. Waxman. He investigated the deceptive practices of distorting research and the medically inaccurate information that runs rampant through abstinence-only-until-marriage programs. Knowing that Crisis Pregnancy Centers often share the same resources (including federal money) and often the same staff it should come as no great surprise that this deception is occuring. Truly frightening - kids are directed to these CPC’s through the public schools that implement the AOUM programs. AOUM providers recently held a “panic conference” about the “Future of Federal Funding” for their programs. I guess they’re starting to see that the “Yellow Brick Road” may have a detour under the new Congress. Dead End would be better.
False and Misleading Information Provided by Federally Funded Pregnancy Resource Centers
http://oversight.house.gov/Documents/20060717101140-30092.pdf.
“The War on Terror has radicalised Muslims around the world to unprecedented levels of anti-American feeling, according to the largest survey of Muslims ever to be conducted.
Seven per cent believe that the events of 9/11 were “completely justified”. In Saudi Arabia, 79 per cent had an “unfavourable view” of the US.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1415550.ece
I am really breaking my rules and offer a rebuttal…kind of, to the link he posted. I dont get it, though I probably know the answer by now but, did you even read the whole article, or are the above quotes that I have posted the only thing you paid attention to ?
It explains why Muslims see it that we, and the article also explains how similar the American values (im assuming religious ones) are similar to those of the muslims.
It also does mention the way an average american feels about muslims as well.
I wonder if LJR is just faking his stupidity, because I don’t think (hope) its possible to be that dumb, and close minded.
I guess he was blinded by the light…(hmm i think im stealing a quote here ;p)
…woops, I was referring to LJRs post at 12:38
Damn, someone let me know if my post even makes any sense, need to get more sleep. I feel as though im skipping words as I type.
Dimitri said: I guess he was blinded by the light…(hmm i think im stealing a quote here ;p)
Do you mean the song? Yeah, LJR, is wrapped up like a douche… er, I mean deuce.
Oh my God, what am I doing, I am ruining any future chance that I have to professionally blog on behalf of a ploitical candidate. I really need to clean up my act.
political
Albatross, yes I meant the song
Oh…and about your act!
Clean it up or you wont be the next president!
No such aspirations! I like Robin Williams joke from the 80’s though. “If there were a woman president, there would be no wars. Just really intense negotiations…every 28 days!!
dale Says: Don’t worry Alex, blog I love yous are not like the in person I love yous. They are much less pernicious.
This from Dale, who runs for cover whenever anyone says “Group hug!”
Excerpt from Time article owing to the reality that ultasongraphers can put anything they want across that screen.
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1590444,00.html#
“When we do the ultrasound, we ask the girl how she’s feeling,” Wilson explains. “I ask what she would like to put on the picture for her baby book. One girl put ANGEL. Some put the name they’ve picked out for the baby.” She points to the translucent image on the screen. “One put LITTLE MIRACLE!!!!”
Here is a link to some ultrasound photos. LJR, this is a courtesy to you. See if your pea-brain allows you to differentiate between the six week vs. the six month scans. Can you see a baby in the six week scan? Can you see any problem with a crisis pregnancy center (with NO trained medical experts) showing a yound woman a photo of evn a 16 week fetus when she has missed one cycle of menstruation? No problem with that kind of deception?
http://www.ob-ultrasound.net/frames.htm
My name is LJR, and I like being lied to. Its so nice to know that thinking for myself isnt required. I can just live my ignorant life, allow being controlled by those in charge no matter what and never question anything im told.
I never have anything to say, and prefer to quote others as my own work.
My name is LJR
“Being clueless is my motto.”
hmmm that almost sounds like a poem.
I wonder if I could publish it; maybe id sell out
FDA Cautions Against Ultrasound ‘Keepsake’ Images
“It’s risky business taking pictures of unborn babies when there’s no medical need to do so. That’s the word from the Food and Drug Administration, which is concerned about companies trying to turn an important medical procedure into a prenatal portrait tool…
The FDA announced in 2002 that anyone administering ultrasound to consumers without a medical prescription is breaking the law. “In the past,” says Richter, “the FDA has taken regulatory action, such as a warning letter or even seizure, when these devices were used for entertainment purposes without a prescription.”…
http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2004/104_images.html
Wonder if emotional manipulation qualifies as “unneccessary ultrasound?” Wonder if Dobson is aware that he’s been breaking the law all these years?
I read one article about the complaint that these clinics have no licensed medical practitioners; one staff member of a CPC stated (in effect): “No problem. A Dr. doesn’t have to even be in the clinic. Getting Dr.’s who choose life to affiliate with us won’t be any problem.” (don’t have the link handy)
They did an ultra sound on LJR and found his cranial cavity to be totally empty.
A friend of mine had an ultrasound and was told that she was about 10 weeks pregnant, but that the “baby” had died. She opted for an “abortion”, only to find out that the “baby” was, in fact, a cancerous tumor, which, had she opted to continue the “pregnancy”, would have killed her.
All that an ultrasound can show is that there is, indeed, a growth of some sort. It doesn’t prove that there is a “baby” in development.
CPC’s are receiving federal grants left and right. One in SC just got $10,000 no questions asked (according to a friend of mine). Eric Kerowhacko being put in charge of family planning is a huge benefit to them. Read up on this guy - he is sick.
As there is very little oversight on Ab-Only grants, and they are heavily connected with CPC’s, very few questions are asked on where the money has gone. I’m sure a machine or two has been purchased when it was chalked off to “educational materials.”
Following the money is tough work, but I think people would truly be surprised.
Curves for Women (founder Gary Heavin) is a huge contributor for the CPC’s, especially in Texas.
These “family” folks are all so loving and caring, they not only want every pregant woman to carry her baby to term, they want every woman to have a baby as often as possible until she dies! After all, goes their “logic” - what is a woman but a receptacle for every Holy Sperm spit out of the Sacred Sacs? A walking incubator? God forbid that any woman might have a life that does not revolve around cooking, cleaning, pleasin’ her man and squeezin’ out his little heirs. Instead of pushing the one thing that might actually lessen the need for abortion - safe, effective, easily available and affordable birth control for both men and women - they are the ones refusing to sell Plan B in pharmacies, telling women they’re sluts for even thinking about using contraception, and screaming about abstinence as if God made some sort of mistake when he gave us those nasty genitals. What a load of bullshit. These people are sexually deviant misogynists who hate the idea of letting women control their own bodies.
Dorris,
Where did you learn to write such fiction?
County psych ward perhaps?
Humper - (oops) “Jumper”
Are you a woman? No? Against abortion? Okay, how about you put your money where your mouth is and go support some destitute woman’s unwanted baby until it’s eighteen. It’ll only cost, say, four or five hundred thousand bucks. Way cheaper than birth control right? And pregnancy is so much better for the woman, too, even though statistically, carrying a baby to term is far more risky to a woman’s health than abortion. (And no, I’m not pulling that out of my ass - I’m an RN, and I’ve seen a few pregnancies in my time).
If these “Pro-Lifers” - and yes, I mean that sarcastically - were really interested in ending the need for abortion and were really concerned with the well-being of women and infants, they’d be promoting access to sex education and birth control, and helping women with the children they already have. The fact that they aren’t reveals their true agenda - control. Control over every aspect of a woman’s life, because they have this deluded belief that God granted men sovereignty over every other life form, including women. Here’s a simple analogy that maybe even you can understand: If you wanted to cut off your balls, it wouldn’t be a public issue. Maybe an issue of stupidity, but no one’s going to arrest you or ask you what right you had to terminate all those little wigglies or bomb your house because you murdered all those little babies-to-be, now will they? And it’s a good thing too, or you’d be in real trouble every time you whacked off. Now - try to keep up - until a fetus can breathe on it’s own and exist outside my body, it’s a part of my body just like your balls are a part of yours, and I’m in control of my body. If you don’t like it, don’t knock women up. Period.
And if your little head isn’t spinning by now, here are some facts: Nature does the dirty deed far more often than women. Last I read in my medical texts,, almost a third of fertilized ova fail to implant and are washed right out into the toilet. A fairly large percentage of those that do implant later die and are miscarried due to genetic abnormalities. And some babies are stillborn, through no fault of the mother or her doctor. Take it up with God. And for those who are filling women’s heads with this crap about how dangerous abortion is, go look up the stats on the dangers of carrying a baby to term. Far more women die due to pregnancy than due to abortion. And lest you think I’m a just another evil baby-killing, bitchy lesbian career woman, sorry to disappoint you. I’m married and have two (planned) children.
These idiots have to twist science and medical fact to get their message across because science and medical fact do not support their position. If that doesn’t bear out the wrongness of their position, what does?
Still with me, MJ?
Dorris, good post.
The Great MJ has engaged you.
Yes, MJ, all of us godless, prochoice, wicked liberals have done stints in the local psych ward. After the preacher folks came to proselytize us, we got all better. Jesus loves you.
Dorris, you go girl
Lynne, your friend. She’s bad. She’s a … a… a cancer killer. To think she’d choose to abort her cancer. What is the world coming to. Imagine if she had found herself in the wrong “Dr” office and had been preached to, lied to, and had the words, “I love you Mommy. Don’t kill me” written across the bottom of the machine.
I’m glad they caught it, and I hope your friend is doing OK.
LJR - I guess you missed this last week: I can update it now. Parents GUILTY of Murdering their 8 yr old son. Their church gave congregation members instruction books on discipling their kids. This poor little boy was locked in a closet with a Bible, beaten severly, and locked in a chest.
You are so right. It is wrong to murder children.
February 15th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
Albatross Says:
Yes, LJR, you are right. It is horrible to kill babies:
One more example:
Joseph and Sonya Smith stand trial in the death of their 8 (EIGHT) yr old.
The family attended Tennessee-based Remnant Fellowship Church.
Witness DuBois told Prosecutor Eleanor Dixon during cross examination that she was not surprised to learn that the parents openly admit they were spanking Josef — who was rebellious to the point of being out of control — with a 12-inch-long glue stick, repeatedly, several times a day.
“And that’s what the church teaches, to use that sort of discipline as a last resort?” Dixon asked.
“That’s what most evangelical churches teach,” DuBois replied.
“Well, in your church, specifically? Where you met the Smiths?”
“Yes.”
Dorris, your posts above were terrific!
As Albatross put it…”You go, girl”!
OUCH!! Dorris, I don’t think he’ll recover from that one any time soon.
Don’t you just love watching an RN “lay the smack down”?
Oh, MJ, will shake it off, and attempt to show Dorris the errors of her ways. I look forward to this one.
No say it a’int so??? If what Dorris is saying is true, then God is the biggest abortion clinic out there, and what’s even worse he does it to women who actually want to carry to term and have their child, a forced abortion. Holy crap won’t someone think of all those “unborn babies” and stop this murding meglomaniac!
So if I get Jumper’s reasoning correct, its ok for God to go around and give forced abortions to women at a scale of magnitudes higher than any selective abortions ever performed here by people, but for a woman to make this decision is some how immoral?
I’ll follow along and say great post Dorris, I had to read it twice, which is probably 2 more times than Jumper will.
LJR Says -
“If one of your family members was lying on a hospital bed and that person was in a vegetative state, would you let the doctor kill your dearest family member with out a second thought?”
Funny you should say that. A few weeks ago, I made plans to travel back to California to see friends and family, and spend the weekend (This weekend - I arrived here yesterday) in Las Vegas with some friends. My grandfather has been slowly dying of Pancreatic Cancer; for six months he has been battling the disease, and it seemed that there was some hope. As early as last week, the oncologist suggested a procedure to help alleviate the pain the tumor (which was the size of a pencil eraser) was causing. On Tuesday he took a bad turn, and yesterday he died - at home, surrounded by his wife, sister, children and grandchildren.
I was there with him, and held his hand while he died. His breathing was labored, so we turned off the oxygen and gave him an extra dose of morphine for the pain. We eased his passing. He couldn’t see us, but he could hear us talking to him. He fought, because that is the kind of man he was.
My flight had been delayed, and I had to change around a lot of my plans to get to see him. I’m fortunate - no one knew how long he would live; he died a little over an hour after I arrived. If he had been in a hospital, his passing wouldn’t have been as peaceful as it was. The weather in San Diego was supposed to be stormy, but at the time of his death, the sun was shining and the breeze was gently blowing the curtains in his room. He got to spend his last days in the comfort of his own home, surrounded by pictures of his loved ones. It was a truly beautiful experience. I would never, NEVER trade it for anything in the world.
Sorry for your loss, Stephanie.
Thank you - but I’m not. That’s the funny thing. I think if I hadn’t been there, I would be beside myself with grief. I grieve now, but I was THERE. I helped him go. That somehow makes it different.
For Mark and LJR - He was Jewish.
I understand exactly what you mean, Stephanie.
Thanks, Alba.
Stephanie,
I think your story is beautiful, full of respect for a human being and his dignity. This is something MJ and LJR could learn a lesson or two about. These people are so shrill about “saving” life at all costs, that they abuse and degrade that life and ignore (in the case of abortion) people who are already living and breathing, and in the case of people in vegetative or hopeless states, the right of that person to dignity and respect.
Yes, I would allow my loved one to die. Why prolong misery and suffering? Why keep a body alive when all that made that person unique is gone? Who are you doing it for, that person - or yourself? I think you did the right thing.
Nicely put, Dorris.
I have told even my kids (who can’t bear to think this way), if you want a vegetable, grow one, but never, ever, try to hang on to me if I am in that state of being.
I don’t understand the selfishness that some people can display when it comes to the “sanctity” of life. Yes, I believe life is sacred, in it’s own way. ALL life, both plant and animal. It was heartbreaking, turning off his oxygen. But his lungs were filling with fluid, his lips and fingers pale. Oxygen would only prolong his death. My 17 year-old brother was the one to do it. He didn’t even have to ask. He gave my step-mom (who is a nurse) a look, and then removed the tubes and turned off the machine. How many people do you know would make that decision?
I think it was the most honorable thing you could do, Stephanie. To prolong pain and suffering is the epitome of evil in my book. To prolong life, when death is there, is pure selfishness.
Also - though this point has been made many times by many people - I can’t help but find it the sickest kind of irony that the same people who want to “save” every fetus and every person in a hopeless coma are the same people frothing at the mouth to kill every Muslim ever born, innocent or not. And anyone who gets in their way, too. Apparently if you’re standing on two feet and drawing breath you ain’t shit, but if you’re a collection of twenty cells or an empty shell, you’re worth a constitutional amendment or overturn of the same.
Dorris,
“Apparently if you’re standing on two feet and drawing breath you ain’t shit”
You left out - “and not a believer”.
Oops! You’re right, Alex! But here’s another thought - if the pro-life believers were true to their own logic, they’d be encouraging all of us Godless immoral liberal sluts to have all the abortions we can take. That way they can keep breeding out of control (every good fundie family should have at least 10 kids!) while we abort ourselves out of existence!
Right now, our fundie trolls are slapping their heads - why didn’t I think of that? Well? Because these dorks don’t think beyond their own immediate, knee-jerk reactions to every issue.
Dorris - I think you done scared MJ away
Regarding the “sanctity of life”…I, personally, see absolutely nothing “sacred” or “dignified” about keeping someone in a persistant vegetative state “alive”.
The decision about whether or not to end life support is a very difficult one. I had to help my stepmother make that very decision a couple of years ago, when my father had a massive coronary and was on life support following a quintuple (that’s a 5 time) bypass. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my life, but, I didn’t let the doctor “kill” my dad…Daddy was already gone.
My Mom has put me in a precarious position. She knows I have given my family a clear directive for DNR. A few years back she was critically ill, made me her health care proxy, and said she wanted no artificial means of life support. K - fine. Then she said, “But, if I die on the table, and they can bring me back, and guarantee that I won’t be a vegetable, or need artificial support, then I’d want them to try.” She had some idea, that after a rescusitation, that the quality of her life might be better than it is now. So she has a fear, and instead of coming to terms with it on her own, she has placed the burden (wrong word, I know) on me.
The best thing anyone can do for their family is to have a living will. Make sure you have all your wishes regarding resuscitation and life support defined and legalized. Update it regularly to reflect changing family circumstances. This makes it much harder for dissenting family members and courts to interfere. Make sure everyone knows about it, including your family doctor. No one likes to think about terminal illness and death, but having a will such as this makes these decisions so much less stressful for families, doctors, and nurses.
Thanks, Doris. It’s funny - when I try to talk with my Mom, now that she’s not in a critical state, she doesn’t want to talk about it. It really sucks knowing you’re someone’s proxy, but they are really unsure of their own position in the whole thing. My mother says she has no fear of death, but I’ve long suspected it’s the complete reverse.
The three times I’ve tried to get my husband to go with me to a notary public for my own directives, he has made excuses on why we can’t go that day.
I made a Living Will several years ago. I have no aversion whatsoever to efforts being made to resuscitate me (CPR, defibrillation, etc), but, if prolonging my life will require me to be on a ventilator in order to maintain my existence, I want the efforts to keep me alive to stop. I see no reason to put my family in the financial and emotional burden of keeping me “alive” if I am only breathing and my heart is only beating because I am hooked up to a machine. My husband, both of my daughters, and my sister (who is the Executrix of my will) are all aware of my decision and have promised that they will abide by my wishes.
I also have made my wishes known. If I can no longer breathe on my own, shoot me. If I can no longer go to the potty or wipe my butt on my own, or live at home, shoot me. If the Repuglicans take back Congress, shoot me.
If I go teminal, bring me a carton of cigaretts!
One of my favorite essayists, Art Buchwald died on Jan 17th.
In February 2006, Buchwald checked himself into a Washington, D.C. area hospice. Although his kidneys were failing, he elected to forego kidney dialysis, saying that he wished to finish his days his way and to avoid end-of-life ailments that befall so many elderly individuals. However, his health did not fail as rapidly as he expected.
In June 2006, Buchwald was again interviewed by Diane Rehm after leaving the hospice. He reported that his kidney was working and that he “blesses him [sic] every morning. Some people bless their hearts, I bless my kidney.”
He said, “he was “very happy with his choices” and was eating McDonald’s fast food on a regular basis.
By the way, Art refused kidney dialysis when many patients live for years on regular dialysis. That was a big decision. He did not feel it was a good quality of life to have to go to the dialysis center two or three times a week. You have to set there for a couple three hours and he thought that would be too boring.
You have to watch out for those proxies. I had a slight cold last week and my wife was considering terminating me.
I told her let’s not be TOO quick about pulling the plug…………….
Are you people not commenting on this afraid of something? wHAT?
I’m clear on my wishes. No paddles, nothing. Flat line, flat line. I’ll never be the wiser.
As for my, Mom, Dale. I don’t think I’d put her down like a dog, over a cold :-0, but she had this irrational thought process that a rescusitation (sp?) would improve the quality of her life as she knows it now. So based on this rationale, I am placed in the decision making place of not really knowing what in the hell she wants. She made these odd statements like, “Well, if the Dr. thought that my heart condition would improve by paddling my chest, then I’d want him to do it, but if it meant continued deterioration, then no. Or, if my back wouldn’t hurt so much and maybe I could walk without some pain, then it would be OK.” This women (who I love dearly, most of the time hee hee) is an LPN, and was making statements like this without any medications whatsoever. I had to doublecheck with the nurse to see if perhaps she had been given something, anything, that was affecting her thinking ability.
It was like trying to discuss somthing so difficult with someone who had all the sense of a 4 yr old. When I tell her she must draw up a living will, she doesn’t want to talk about it “right now.”
I get the same thing from my husband when I say I want to have my living will drawn up. It’s always: “We don’t need to talk about this right now.”
I’m just hoping I’ll have the courage to do myself in if that time comes. I’ll have to do the deed while still able to think and act for myself. I just am not sure I’ll have the balls to do it.
Alba,
You will know what to do and when to do it. I can assure you of that.
My Dad made it easy on me and my sister.
He had the typical ailments of a seventy eight year old guy, heart, kidneys,etc. He had a bypass and a couple years later the ticker started giving out as did his kidneys. He did dialysis for a whil. One day he cmae under distress and ended back in the hospital in grave condition. I live a couple hours away but went up to see him that night. He was in pretty good spirits.
The next morning I get a call at work from my sister. She said, Dad wants to come home…for good. I knew exactly what that meant and I drove up there as fast as I could. I no sooner poulled in the lane and my sister and mother were standing out near the driveway. Before I could say a word, the ambulance pulled in and when they opened the back door the nurse got out kinda looking funny and nodded her head toward my Dad. My sister and I jumped in, one on each side.
He said to my sister, your Mom is with me on this….no more hospitals and no more tubes. Then he looked at me and said, Dale, could you stay around for a day or so, and I said yes, as long as you like.
They wheeled him through the house and he joked with my oldest son and told him to quit chewing snuff on the way to that huge bedroom and study that he loved.
The family gathered as he failed through the night. He took no medication and said his last words to my Mom at 10 AM the next morning. At 1PM he died with two of his youngest grandchildren playing at the foot of his bed.
Losing him was like burning down a library to me.
Life is beautiful and death is peaceful. It is only the transition that is troublesome.
Thanks, Dale. That was nice. Your ananlogy to the burnt down library - sums it all up beautifully. I think my frustration lies with the fact that my mother has this irrational idea that a Dr. can do more than they actually can.
My family gives me lots of flak, and calls my choice of medicine “witchy voodoo.” I grew very tired of chronic sinus infections, which led to nasty asthma attacks, and every “itis” in the book, and a slew of medications that seemed only to make things worse. I got sick and tired of being sick and tired, and so I took it in my own hands, loaded up on certain vitamins, minerals, and some other concoctions. When a nurse practitioner said, “Oh, good the medicine is finally working,” I told her I hadn’t taken anything that they had given me for 4 months (six different meds). She told me the amount of magnesium I was taking was too high, but when I said that I knew that a high dose shot of mag administered in a hospital could stop an allergy attack instantaneously she was surprised. I wasn’t taking nearly that high a dose and had managed to get my asthma under control with the choices I was making. My family often tells me I’m going to end up in the hospital or dead, but when I remind them of this time, and many others, they quickly shut up.
My husband had a tick half embedded in his arm. This freaks me out - my daughter has chronic Lyme. The MD told him they’s see him the next day in the late afternoon to remove it which was definitely NOT good enough for me. I told him to stand still, sprayed this stuff called tea tree oil on the grotesque bugger. Well, that sucker started wriggling his little legs all about, backed himself out of my husband’s arm, and dropped dead. I sprayed more on the site, and when my husband went to the Dr. just to have her look, he brought the tick to her. She was astounded that we had managed to “pull it out intact like that.” When he told her what I had done, she rolled her eyes, and said, “Here’s some doxycycline…just in case.” The same stuff cured athlete’s foot for my son, who tried their creams for months on end.
The doc always says to me now, “If whatever you try doesn’t work, here’s a prescription for xxx.” But she also said, “Maybe I’ll get some of that tea tree oil stuff to keep in my cabinet.” I told her to look it up, she’d be surprised at some of the things they don’t teach in medical school. And two times out of three I never fill the RX. She knows I come to her to help diagnose the problem - my first choice at fixing it is NOT the same as hers.
Alba,
I always keep Tea Tree Oil (Melaleuca Oil) around and in my medical kit when we are backpacking, etc.
It was first used, I think, by native Austrailians.
It is a proven natural antiseptic, germicide, antibacterial, fungicide . It is deadly to dermatophytes (all types), which was probably the cause of your son’s athlete foot. The oil is also soothing to bug bites. Good for healing skin cuts, burns, and infections. Also shown to be effective in treatment of Acne, Dandruff, Periodontal disease, Eczema, and Psoriasis.
I am very cautious about home remedies, but I also like to use the least toxic remedy I can and if a condition lingers, I go to the Doc.
Tea Tree Oil Buddy
Most people say Tea what? And yes, it is Australian. Also, in combination with some other things - kills lice. Most people use the toxic Nix, when other things (natural) will work with no harm done. I took great pleasure in watching that tick die, though. You could say it brought me glee!
My above post should say a high dose shot of magnesium will halt an asthma attack, not allergy. But this is never what hospitals opt for. Probably not profitable enough.
So many cures lie in your cabinets - and of course in a bowl of chicken soup! Hospitals is the past ten years have realized grandma had something in this one.
I have a friend who swears by Tea Tree Oil as a pediculicide and I have used it on Little Britches when the Rid, Nix and every other treatment did nothing…it worked like a charm. Believe it or not, another good rememdy for lice is MAYONNAISE. (Slather the head with mayo, wrap it in plastic wrap, have the infected person sit in the sun for 1/2 hour, wash hair, comb out the lice and nits and wash hair with regular shampoo…works wonders!)
I did that, Lynne with the tea tree oil, and some hair care oils made for African Americans. Apparantly, lice don’t like any kind of oil, so black people are less likely to get lice. I did the mayo every night for ten nights with a shower cap. My daughter’s hair was never so shiny, and while the poor little girl who gave her the nasty critters went through two rounds of Nix, we were done with it in ten days. (I actually never saw another one after the first day w/tea tree oil and mayo, but for precautionary measures, and that second hatch cycle, we kept it up.)
Magic stuff. It’s in my cupboard at all times.
I am happy to report that we haven’t had a case of head lice for many a year. But when the kids were in grade school they brought them home a couple times. They give me the creeps when I see them colonizing the poor kids heads.
Yuck!
!!!!!
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